An interview transcription with Portia Louder
I had the opportunity to share some of my experiences in prison recently with Paul and Collette Pulsipher.
Paul
Today I have someone who has a very different experience with the Savior. She has gone through something far different, but I’m going to let you introduce yourself real quick and then we’ll go from there.
Portia
Thank you Paul. My name is Portia Louder, and I am a member of the church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints. I have five children, and I’ve been married to my husband Chad for 23 years. I also served four and a half years in federal prison for real estate fraud. It was a life changing experience. Probably one of the hardest things I will ever have to do, and I’ve done some hard things. I hesitate to say that because I’ve learned that things can always get harder.
Paul
I gathered that from your profile.
Portia
There’s been a few times that I thought, “This is going to be the hardest thing that will ever happen’, and then something else comes along. It ended up being my blessing though, I met people from all different cultures, all different religions, all over the world. I met a lot of people who were extremely poor. I met people that were changing their lives, and that’s a beautiful thing. It’s not anything like I thought prison would be.
Paul
It sounds like a simple version of repentance.
Portia
They call it a penitentiary, and the word comes from repentance. When I found out I was going to prison the only thing I had left to give to my family was to turn to our Savior, and do everything I could to leave prison healed. There’s so little you can offer in that situation; especially in federal prison because you’re usually in a different state. I started out in California, and was there for a year. My family was able to come out a couple of times; then I was transferred to Minnesota for three years. When you’re in prison they can transfer you wherever they want without notice.
Paul
Because you’re out of the state system?
Portia
Right, and you’re not putting in an order saying, “Hey, I’d like to go here.” It doesn’t work like that, they show up with handcuffs and shackles and put you on a plane with the US Marshals holding big guns.
Paul
Instead of serving the Lord, you get to go serve something else.
Portia
Yeah, you do serve a prison sentence, but you also serve the Lord. The love and sisterhood we shared in prison was beautiful!
Paul
So is it just a women’s prison?
Portia
Yes, they have men and women separated. The female institutions are classified as FCIs, which is a federal correctional institution, and everybody’s there together, no matter what your charge is. Or they have prison camps, where they send people who are white collar, which is what I was; but I ended up spending most of my time at FCI’s. Camps are minimum security, and a lot less structured.
Paul
So I’m not really familiar with the whole terminology here.
Portia
Generally, white collar would be a real estate charge, more of a money type charge.
Paul
Like financial economic kind of stuff?
Portia
Right. When I first got to prison, I thought there was a big difference. That we were white collar, we were more educated; there’s a lot of people in prison that haven’t finished high school. By the time I was done serving my time I started to realize how much more culpable I was, because of my education. When I started to own my mistakes, and take responsibility for the decisions I made, I saw it differently. I started to really pray to understand and know the divine potential of the women I spent time with, and it changed things.
Paul
So I would like to get started with the whole process here, could you go back I guess and start with where it all began? Tell us how your heart progressed from one thing to the next, with the Lord, and with your experiences.
Portia
Okay, I’m going to give a quick synopsis of my life when I was younger. I was a single mom, with two children, and had an addiction to prescription drugs. In my late twenties I came to place in my life for the first time I realised I couldn’t do it on my own anymore.
Paul
Sorry, if I may, with the substance thing. This is probably the CNA in me thinking. Because I’ve seen so many different types of drug addictions, just so I understand the magnitude of how difficult this would have been for you. What was it?
Portia
I have used a lot of different substances, but when I first started it was pain pills. Hydrocodone, Percocet, and then it progressed to street drugs.
Portia
It wasn’t good! I was 28 years old and had two children. My son was eight, and my daughter was four. I was living with my parents, and came home late one night after partying. My little boy had been up all night sick; he had a strep infection, and I had been out partying! When I walked into the house, my mom looked at me and said, “ How can this not be enough for you? He just wants you. That’s all he wants.”
Paul
That sounds like a soul hurting question.
Portia
Yeah, it tore me up. I was living in their basement, so I picked my son up and said, “Let’s go downstairs buddy.” We walked downstairs, and I hit the floor and started sobbing. I said, “How could I do this? How could I be this person? I am such an ugly person.” And my son says, “Mom, no, no, no mom.” He pulled me into the bathroom and said, “Look, look at you Mom, you’re beautiful.” Yeah, my heart broke that night. I said, “God, whatever it takes, take this from me. I can’t do this anymore.” I had not been active in the church since I was a young girl, probably 12, but I walked across the street and asked the Bishop of our word for help.
Portia
When I met with him, he told me he was concerned because of the severity of my addiction. He sent me to support group meetings. He didn’t know much about addiction, this was 20 plus years ago, and the church had just started ARP. The bishop had a friend meet me at the meeting, and he told me to just sit and listen. I was sitting in the back of that meeting, and was probably only a couple of days sober, when a man stood up and shared exactly what I was feeling. But he had two years sober, and he had this amazing light in his eyes. Now I know it was the light of Christ. That’s what happens when you repent. I went up after the meeting and asked him how he did it. I told him, “whatever you did, I want to do that.” He gave me the AA big book and told me that I needed to work the steps, which now I know are just the steps of repentance. They also invited me to go to an ARP meeting, which had just started, there were only a few people there. They’ve changed the whole format since then; but I met these amazing people that I felt comfortable around. People with problems like me, that were honest and open. Getting right back into church was too scary for me then.
Portia
I had an addiction, so I went to meetings, and they would ask me to say a prayer, or let me share my experience. I remember telling the facilitator that I had screwed up my life so bad, and hurt the people I loved so much it seemed impossible to make right. He told me to take it one day at a time. He said, “ I promise you with priesthood power and authority if you say your prayers, read your scriptures, and go to church, your whole life will change.” So I was holding onto that, because I couldn’t see it. I couldn’t feel it. I didn’t feel close to our father in heaven, but I trusted this guy, and I didn’t even trust my own thoughts anymore, so I decided to do what he said
Portia
So I did it, and I thought that was the hardest thing I’d ever have to do. I walked away from everyone I knew, all the friendships I had. I changed my life, and I met the man that I’m married to now. My husband and I went to the temple, he adopted my children, and we were all sealed in the temple. We built this family, and life got really good for us. We moved to American fork and I started a photography business, we had two more children, and I remember every day thinking how grateful I was just to wake up because I had lived that crazy life. I thought it was amazing that I didn’t feel that guilt anymore, I didn’t feel that heavy burden. I think my kids look back and say that the things that were the hardest to overcome were our greatest blessing. They knew where I had come from, and we experienced the healing power of the Atonement of Jesus Christ heal our family.
Paul
Sorry, just because my Asperger’s brain is doing this, what was it originally that got you started on the pain meds? Was it an accident, or surgery?
Portia
No, some people have an injury and get addicted; but I used them to fill the emptiness I felt. I wasn’t living in alignment with correct principles. I was a party girl with two kids. I wasn’t doing things that bring happiness. The first time I used pills it filled the emptiness, and I remember thinking, “I’m never going to quit using these. How does everybody else live without them?” I thought that was how I was going to get through life, but they turned on me. They didn’t fix things anymore, and they left me in a hole that I couldn’t climb out of on my own.
Paul
Jesus Christ was the answer. Yeah, it was impossible without him.
Portia
He lowered the ladder a wrung at a time, until I could reach it. I relapsed though, I had five years sober and relapsed, and fought it from that point on. I remember when I was pregnant, I had a toddler, I had two older kids, and my business was pretty demanding. We started to build a home in Highland, and we set up a studio for my photography business. I was overwhelmed, and the real estate market started going up, up, up. I started thinking,” I could invest in real estate and wouldn’t have to leave my kids so much.” It started out that way, but as my addiction progressed, my judgement wasn’t so good. I remember the first time somebody presented a deal that didn’t feel right.
Paul
I’m not familiar with this whole thing, so what were you doing?
Portia
I started out buying a lot for 70,000 and would try to sell it for 80,000. There’s nothing wrong with that, but I eventually got involved with equity stripping deals. I was borrowing money over and above the purchase prices, and investing it in other ventures. This was around 2004, 2005 before things went South. I remember feeling like I shouldn’t get involved, but I did anyway.
Paul
So what is the illegal part of that, because I’m not familiar with this whole picture.
Portia
It was a collusion amongst the buyers and banks and appraisers. I didn’t think it was illegal when I got involved, but it didn’t feel like it was the right thing to do either. I had a hard time with that when I was dealing with the FBI. I kept telling them, “I don’t think what I did was illegal.” It took me a couple of years in prison to really own it, and get to a place where I wanted to make things right.
I decided to make a spreadsheet of everything I did wrong when I was in prison. It was a list of all the things that I was responsible for, and it was eye opening! I realized that I had totally let my integrity lapse. Whether it was a pay stub, or other indiscretions, I was in the wrong. I was charged with mortgage fraud, which is misrepresenting things to banks. I had a hard time with the charge because the banks were fully aware of the numbers. We told them we were borrowing more than we were paying for the house, and asked them where they wanted the loan to come in at. The banks would tell us what they wanted the deal to look like. I was charged with defrauding the banks, and regardless of whether the banks were defrauded, I know I made decisions that weren’t in alignment with my values, and integrity.
I had done things that I didn’t feel good about, so what the feds charged me with wasn’t a concern for me after a couple of years in prison. I needed to get a hundred percent right with myself. I worked on repenting for the mistakes I made, so I could move past them. I stopped focusing on what the government said, and started focusing on what I did. I borrowed more money than the houses were worth, if you want to simplify it. When the market crashed, a lot of those houses went back to banks. So there was a loss, it was that 2008 time when everything decreased in value.
Paul
Was there a moment, or a few moments, where the spirit was able to get through to you, and let you know that it was wrong. Like, please admit what’s going on here! Was there a moment that kind of flipped that switch for you?
Portia
There were definitely those moments before I went to prison. It was just so difficult at that point, because I have children, and they wanted me to go to prison. I thought,”I can’t go to prison. I can’t leave my kids. I can’t leave my husband. I can’t!” It seemed so impossible,
Paul
I’m not the person you want to send to prison, I’m a good person, right?
Portia
Yeah. There’s that. Plus, I thought, “Look, I already changed my life. I repented, I built something out of my life, and you can’t take it away.
Portia
It felt like they were trying to take everything from me. That’s how I felt. Like I was going to lose my identity as a person. A Mormon, or a mother, or a wife, or a decent person; all of that. It felt like I was losing everything. I wanted to say,”You can’t have everything. No.” I fought because in my mind I thought,” It’s not fair. It’s too much. You’re asking for too much. I can’t give it to you.” I remember standing on my porch when the FBI showed up. I had just had my youngest daughter CJ, and I’m standing there on the porch thinking, “Go away. No, please go away!”
Portia
It was just too hard! I did tell one of my attorneys the truth though. He said, “You’re innocent. You didn’t do this.” I looked at him, and said, “No, that’s not true. I know what I did, and it was wrong.” He told me that it wasn’t that big of a deal, and I said, “Let’s not fool ourselves. Let’s get real. Maybe you can find a defense for me, but I know in my heart that I did things wrong.”
Paul
Like, regardless of what the law says, it was wrong.
Portia
Yeah, exactly. I told him,” I’m not going to lose my soul. If you need to find a legal defense for me go ahead and have it out with the prosecutor. I’m not sure the prosecutors have souls anyways. Just kidding.
Paul
It reminds me of that part in the movie Liar, Liar. He says, “I hold you in contempt of court,” And Jim Carey says,” I hold myself in contempt. Why are you any different?” That’s like one of those moments where Alma the younger really wanted to make everything right. The scriptures say he was zealously striving to repair what he’d done because he’d compromised his own integrity.
Portia
I love the story of king Lamoni, because he was willing to give away all of his sins, all of his financial everything to know God. I found freedom by giving everything away, it wasn’t at all what I thought it would be. The legal process was long and drawn out. Just to give you an idea, when I finally got sentenced, my youngest daughter CJ, the one I was holding my arms when they showed up, was seven years old. We had been dealing with the FBI showing up, with threats, and deal making, for a long time when I finally got to a place where I was ready to go and be sentenced.
Portia
I pleaded guilty on a zero to seven year range. So I could get probation, all the way up to 7 years. The courtroom is sterile, and I could feel it when I walked in. It’s not a place anyone wants to be. They’re deciding your fate without you having any say in it.
Portia
I walked in and felt that sterile feeling. I was by myself when I walked up to my seat, and I looked back at my family; my husband and all of our children were sitting there in beautiful clothes. I felt in my heart that he was going to give me seven years. I knew right then that he was going to give me the maximum amount of time.
Portia
Tears came streaming down my cheeks, and I looked back at my family and thought, “I am so sorry.” I had this feeling of complete heartache for what I put my family through. That’s when things got real. Oh my gosh! Up until that point, I’m fighting and arguing, and trying to do whatever I can to avoid going to prison. All of that disappeared, and nothing else mattered. What people thought didn’t matter; the only thing that really mattered was how I could help my family to get through this. I looked at my attorney, and almost felt sorry for her. The attorneys started talking and my thought was, “why are you guys arguing? There’s no reason. It’s already been decided” I knew what was going to happen, and when they got done the judge said, “All right Ms. Louder, do you have something you’d like to say?”
Portia
I stood up and told my family how much I loved them, and how sorry I was that I had brought them through this.” I said, “ I know what you’re going to do your Honor, and I probably deserve it. I would just ask for mercy for my family.” He said, okay, thank you, you can sit down.” And he sentenced me to 84 months, which is seven years. But the next thing he did was not something I was prepared for. He said, “Okay, let’s have the US Marshals, take Ms. Louder into custody,” Normally you would get at least eight weeks to prepare before you self surrender to prison if you’re in my situation.
Portia
I told him I needed the eight weeks, but he said he decided to have the marshals take me right then. That would have been the last time I saw my family. At that point my husband stood up, and we shared one of the most beautiful experiences I’ve ever had with him. He was crying, so he had to compose himself. He said, “Your honor, please give us this time as a family, we need it.” I turned around and I truly felt like a queen. I felt the Savior standing next to me, and my husband was my advocate. I thought,” There is nothing the judge can take from me. Nothing! I am the richest woman on Earth.”. What a beautiful moment that was. It was powerful. I don’t think the judge could even say no. He gave me the eight weeks, which was the mercy I had asked him for.
That’s eight weeks before you went to prison?
Yes, before I self surrendered. And I will tell you that my life has never been the same. That day my world changed.
Time froze, and I wondered why everybody else was still living their lives? Something just happened. Something changed, my world shifted.
I remember when I got home that night, looking at my kids and thinking, “How could I have been so confused about life? Why did I think making money mattered? It didn’t matter at all.” All that mattered was the simple, beautiful moments with them. Why was I trying so hard for something so unimportant? It was a shock for me, how everything that I thought was important wasn’t, and what really mattered I had the whole time. I would take my son Jackson to school and say,”This is the most beautiful experience.” He’s like, “Mom, are you okay?” Every moment with them was precious. I didn’t miss vacations, I didn’t think about cars, I wasn’t worried about money. All of it just disappeared. All I cared about was being in their presence, and sharing something special with them before I left. Making sure they knew that they were loved was important.
I’ve come to realize that time is extremely precious. I value my time so much more now. I made a lot of money before I went to prison, but I was so busy. I don’t have much money now, but I have time with my kids, and I value it. I value taking my kids to school. I value just being there. It completely changed my whole perspective. I didn’t know how hard it was going to be when I went away. How can you possibly know? I just enjoyed every moment I had, and then my husband drove me to Dublin, California, and he left me there to serve my prison sentence.
Paul
Where’s Dublin?
Portia
It’s in Oakland, or Northern California. The first few weeks were really tough. It was overwhelming!
Paul
You’re adapting to a new life?
Portia
I felt so hopeless. When you wake up in prison everything’s gray. There’s no color. We all wear khakis. Everyone wears the same color, Right. I hated that at first; but in time I grew to love it, because it’s so convenient. I had four shirts for four years. It was great! I never had to pick colors. But in the beginning, when you’re used to the creative world out here, and you go into this iron world it’s hard. You eat the same things every week, there’s not really a lot to look forward to. In time you have the opportunity to find internal freedom and strength, and nature becomes so vivid! I found such beauty in simplicity. When I came home I was overwhelmed by all the stuff we have. We don’t have much anymore, but even the stuff we do have is too heavy for me. I had boxes of clothes, and gave them all away. I only need like three things to wear.
Paul
I liked that. You mentioned that freedom from things. Yeah, the freedom to get from things to people.
Portia
Most people would think all your freedoms are taken away when you’re in prison. Not even close, because you have this internal freedom to decide how to respond to what’s going on. I started to really exercise and develop that freedom. When I realized that I got to decide my thoughts, I got to decide my feelings and my prayers. I mean, there’s a lot of important things to focus on when you get rid of all these crazy choices. There’s too many distractions out here.
We’re overwhelmed with things, and with choices. Do you know how many different types of mustard you have to choose from at the store? There’s too many options; but when you simplify it down, what mattered in prison was people. My neighbor’s mother passed away, and we were there to comfort her. Those things happened all the time; and they don’t get to go to the funeral. There were women that suffered all kinds of loss, who came from such difficult circumstances, and they were my sisters. I was treated with such love and respect, and I feel like I was truly honored to be there. When I left, it was the most amazing experience. I really do believe it was probably like leaving the preexistence to come to earth. I have so much love for the women there!
When I went to prison I set a goal to leave prison an amazing person. I thought,“ I’m going to read my scriptures. I’m going to pray. I’m gonna read every good book, and I’m going to change my life.” One of my friends that knew me for several years came up to me the day I was leaving and said, “I want to be the first person to congratulate you on leaving prison an amazing person.” I gave her a big hug and said, “no, that’s not the miracle. The miracle is that I found out how amazing you all are.” That was the miracle!
I feel so much love for the women I met in prison, we went through a lot together. A lot of the officers too. They would recognize that I needed a little more support and say, “Hey, come in and tell me what you’re going through.” The women that I thought were mean and tough and scary ended up being just a little girl that was hurting inside. One woman that was pretty imposing would say, “Hey Louder, thanks for talking to me today.” It was completely different than I thought when I got to know people. It’s not like they portray it in the movies. I watch the movies and get so frustrated. I’m thinking,”That’s not what it’s like! What we had was sacred and special.”
I’ve heard that once you go to a prison and serve you’re hooked. The people are so amazing! I’ve heard it said before that God walks the halls in prison, and you could feel that in every religion. You can feel his love for all of us. I’ve never felt the spirit stronger. The beauty of the Atonement of Jesus Christ is so incredible. I felt so protected as a member of the church. I was fortunate because I wasn’t ex-communicated, and I was able to wear my garments. So I had those things.
I went through the Bishop court process, and they prayed about it, so I knew I was worthy to have those blessings. I wanted to leave prison free. I wanted to leave any burdens I carried from the past in prison. I wanted to be more than legally forgiven, I wanted to be free, free, free. I made a list of things that I had done, and I buried it in the rec yard. We came together as women from all different faiths, and we started a support group. We decided we were going to share our worst things, and we were leaving prison free.
When you have secrets, they have a lot of power over you. Some of the things we shared were hard to say, but we were brave. It was an incredible experience. I had been in prison about two years and met a girl who tried to kill herself. It was traumatic, and she had to leave to get some help. When she came back and went to a treatment class I was in she stood up, and shared a list of everything she had ever done to hurt others. She had lost custody of her kids, and done things that would be very hard to share.
We felt the power of the atonement in the room. It was so strong. We all just sat there in silence, in awe, that she had the courage to stand and share her burdens. The counselor said,“ I just have one question? What made you care enough about your recovery to get up here and be as honest as you were?” The woman said, “Because I’ve tried everything else, and if I’m not honest I’m going to die. I can’t carry this anymore.” When I saw what that did for her, I decided I have to leave prison without my burdens. I knew I had to get a hundred percent honest, and take accountability for my life. It was a game changer. You can change your story. It frees you up to change your life.
I wrote letters to the people that I needed to make things right with. I asked my children to tell me how I had hurt them. And I just made a decision that I wasn’t leaving with that stuff. I knew the Savior wanted me to be free. He wanted me to open my soul and let the light in. We did it together in prison. I was the only Mormon girl in the group, but we all experienced the Atonement of Jesus Christ. I do know that because I was endowed with power in the temple I was protected; I felt that power as it protected me, and it united our family. There’s no way my husband could have made it through four and a half years without his wife without that. We could not have done it alone. I know that God lives, and He loves all of His children. I met amazing women in prison. Women who are much stronger than I am. My life is a gift, and I wouldn’t change a thing. It’s truly an honor to be one of them.
